“I'm just an individual who doesn't feel that I need to have somebody qualify my work in any particular way. I'm working for me.”-David Bowie
"Jim Bowie! One of the few men I know who makes me nervous."-John Wayne as Davy Crockett in the 1960 film "The Alamo."
We need a Jared Diamond or a Joseph Campbell to provide us with scholarly research and writing on humankind’s apparent need to erect statues and build monuments to people and gods? Oh, wait. Elizabeth Loftus, Daniel Schacter and Alfred Adler already have.
Monumental art is an interesting topic.
I have two favorite verses on the subject:
"The pigeon pecks on the granite head / Of Caesar, dead, no more a threat / Than feathered dust upon the street." - Robert Frost, from "A Masque of Reason."
"He watched a pigeon sit alone / On a plinth where Caesar stood / And thought, 'This is how empires go.'" - W. H. Auden, from "Musée des Beaux Arts."
My favorite John Wayne quote is from _McClintock_, in which Wayne plays a wealthy southwestern rancher. In one scene, Wayne offers someone a job, to which the man replies that he's too proud to work for someone else. Wayne counters with "Hell, we're all working for someone else. Every time someone buys a steak, I'm working for him."
The term used to refer to Roman times was damnatio memoriae: The statues of controversial figures would be destroyed and their names erased from inscriptions. I've discussed this with one of Dr. Brands' colleagues. RE destroying or moving statues of Confederate heroes, her position is that no country honors traitors. Oh, really? There's a statue of Oliver Cromwell outside Parliament (though in all fairness, some have called for its removal). In Glenfinnan, Scotland, there's a statue in memory of
Prince Charles Edward Stuart (Bonnie Prince Charley). who led a rebellion to bring the "auld Stuarts" back to the throne to replace George II ("German Georgie").
I have five heroes; they had human strengths and human weaknesses. Does that mean they're not my heroes? Where would that reasoning end? The maxim the perfect is enemy of the good applies. To me, a hero need have only one redeemable feature. However, there must be passion based on a logical thought process that informs that feature. When cultural mores shift - as they do sometimes - that doesn't mean we have the right to interject those mores to that past thought process.
I agree with you on remembering and honoring the great things that the likes of Jefferson, TR and Wilson did while also being cognizant of the awful things they did. But I think this discussion would be richer if it included the other extreme of historical figures who, on historical reflection really do look villianous and not at all great - Confederate leaders and Columbus for example. Some of the latter figures deserve to be knocked off their pedestals.
There's a difference between the political leaders of the Confederacy (e.g., Jefferson Davis) and great men like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. We erected statues to the latter to honor their military greatness. Some writer once referred to Lee and Rommel as "honorable men who served dishonorable causes."
I understand the conceptual distinction but I would not favor any statues for Rommel because he chose to work for genocidal monsters. Nor should we honor Confederate generals whose actions supported the maintenance of a system of treating human beings as cattle.
“I'm just an individual who doesn't feel that I need to have somebody qualify my work in any particular way. I'm working for me.”-David Bowie
"Jim Bowie! One of the few men I know who makes me nervous."-John Wayne as Davy Crockett in the 1960 film "The Alamo."
We need a Jared Diamond or a Joseph Campbell to provide us with scholarly research and writing on humankind’s apparent need to erect statues and build monuments to people and gods? Oh, wait. Elizabeth Loftus, Daniel Schacter and Alfred Adler already have.
Monumental art is an interesting topic.
I have two favorite verses on the subject:
"The pigeon pecks on the granite head / Of Caesar, dead, no more a threat / Than feathered dust upon the street." - Robert Frost, from "A Masque of Reason."
"He watched a pigeon sit alone / On a plinth where Caesar stood / And thought, 'This is how empires go.'" - W. H. Auden, from "Musée des Beaux Arts."
My favorite John Wayne quote is from _McClintock_, in which Wayne plays a wealthy southwestern rancher. In one scene, Wayne offers someone a job, to which the man replies that he's too proud to work for someone else. Wayne counters with "Hell, we're all working for someone else. Every time someone buys a steak, I'm working for him."
The term used to refer to Roman times was damnatio memoriae: The statues of controversial figures would be destroyed and their names erased from inscriptions. I've discussed this with one of Dr. Brands' colleagues. RE destroying or moving statues of Confederate heroes, her position is that no country honors traitors. Oh, really? There's a statue of Oliver Cromwell outside Parliament (though in all fairness, some have called for its removal). In Glenfinnan, Scotland, there's a statue in memory of
Prince Charles Edward Stuart (Bonnie Prince Charley). who led a rebellion to bring the "auld Stuarts" back to the throne to replace George II ("German Georgie").
Bravo! What a fun, thought provoking read.
David Bowie & Jim Bowie
:-^)
I have five heroes; they had human strengths and human weaknesses. Does that mean they're not my heroes? Where would that reasoning end? The maxim the perfect is enemy of the good applies. To me, a hero need have only one redeemable feature. However, there must be passion based on a logical thought process that informs that feature. When cultural mores shift - as they do sometimes - that doesn't mean we have the right to interject those mores to that past thought process.
I agree with you on remembering and honoring the great things that the likes of Jefferson, TR and Wilson did while also being cognizant of the awful things they did. But I think this discussion would be richer if it included the other extreme of historical figures who, on historical reflection really do look villianous and not at all great - Confederate leaders and Columbus for example. Some of the latter figures deserve to be knocked off their pedestals.
There's a difference between the political leaders of the Confederacy (e.g., Jefferson Davis) and great men like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. We erected statues to the latter to honor their military greatness. Some writer once referred to Lee and Rommel as "honorable men who served dishonorable causes."
I understand the conceptual distinction but I would not favor any statues for Rommel because he chose to work for genocidal monsters. Nor should we honor Confederate generals whose actions supported the maintenance of a system of treating human beings as cattle.