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Richard Munro's avatar

neutrality for Ukraine is a possibility in the long run. I would have no problem with that. But I think the war will go on until 1) Putin is overthrown or defeated or 2) Putin dies. I don't think most Russians really want to war to go on.

The bottom line is Ukraine voted overwhelmingly for independence and wants to be part of a free Europe. If Russia can cancel the independence and votes of a nation then who in Europe is safe?

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William Hancock's avatar

Another thought I subsequently had involves the deterrent effect that Ukraine may have on China. Russia has plenty of malign intent towards the West but limited capability. It has always had an army more suited for homeland defense than for foreign conquest. One only needs to look at Russia's struggles to supply an army ninety miles from its borders and it's limited naval and sealift capabilities to understand Russia's limitations. It also has a small and shrinking economy and serious demographic challenges.

China on the other hand is much more capable. It is not as clear that their animus towards the West is as great. Russia hates the West because they are a loser country. China has not been ill-served by the current economic and security system. They have experienced great economic growth, although much of the population still lives in relative poverty. In general, countries with large economies can sustain large and powerful militaries. Countries like Russia can't. And China has advanced technologically due to students being educated abroad, forced technology transfers and economic espionage.

I don't completely believe that China is the economic powerhouse that they claim to be. In that system there is a lot of incentive for regional officials to fudge the numbers. Those with good numbers get promoted and those with bad numbers get fired. And China's GDP growth is heavily based on construction. Unfortunately, much that is built is unneeded and may never be occupied. Buildings built on credit from government-controlled banks that are not utilized are an economic drain.

I read a paper by an economist at the University of Chicago who contends that the real size of China's economy may be only 40% of what they claim. A lot of his research is based on studying nighttime satellite photos of China. The theory being that economic growth would be accompanied by increased electricity usage and more lights visible at night. He does not find that. He does not claim his research to be definitive but it does raise a lot of questions.

But even if China is not as big an economy as some think, it is still a far more squared away and technologically advanced country than Russia. In the long term, they are much more capable and a greater security threat to the West. And the best way not to have to fight China over Taiwan is to demonstrate to them in advance just how unproductive that such a war would be. China has an export driven economy. Showing them what the democratic economies can do to Russia with sanctions may deter them from emulating Russia's behavior. There are a lot of good reasons for helping Ukraine drive Russia out of all of their territory. There are also a lot of good reasons to keep Russia economically and diplomatically marginalized until they exhibit a sincere change of heart. Not all of these reasons are directly related to Russia.

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